SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
#1
06-21-2006, 03:43 PM
SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Hello all!
I got a strange error in my car, i posted once before i think, but i cant seem to find my post? Anyways this time i took a picture of the error i will attach it to this post. I went to mercedes they couldt find out what caused it. Ever since the fault came up my car has become very very slow, but it is not in limp mode, cus it change gears all the way to 5th with no problem. But 0-60 takes agaes and the motor just sounds like its having a hard time.... anyone know what this error means, look at picture and how to fix it.
Ps. My cruise control works but the speedlimiter does not.
I got a strange error in my car, i posted once before i think, but i cant seem to find my post? Anyways this time i took a picture of the error i will attach it to this post. I went to mercedes they couldt find out what caused it. Ever since the fault came up my car has become very very slow, but it is not in limp mode, cus it change gears all the way to 5th with no problem. But 0-60 takes agaes and the motor just sounds like its having a hard time.... anyone know what this error means, look at picture and how to fix it.
Ps. My cruise control works but the speedlimiter does not.
#2
06-22-2006, 03:27 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Speedtronic is the Cruise Control.
The Speed Limiter is part of the Cruise / Speedtronic system.
Strange that the Cruise still works. Properly or just "sort of"?
You don't state model/year/mileage of vehicle.
Can't think why MB couldn't tell you exactly what this warning is even if they couldn't locate the fault!!
As a guess I would suspect the speed sensor to the Speedtronic or dependent upon age of the vehicle the electronic accelerator system
The Speed Limiter is part of the Cruise / Speedtronic system.
Strange that the Cruise still works. Properly or just "sort of"?
You don't state model/year/mileage of vehicle.
Can't think why MB couldn't tell you exactly what this warning is even if they couldn't locate the fault!!
As a guess I would suspect the speed sensor to the Speedtronic or dependent upon age of the vehicle the electronic accelerator system
#3
06-22-2006, 04:10 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Its a Mercedes C230 from 2001, its has gone 134.000 km. the cruise control works perfectly - its when i try to activate the speedlimiter its says a laoud BIP and the error msg come up.
MB here in Denmark are idiots, they have so little experience with MB cars, cus there arent so many here cus of the high prices.... Where is the speed sensor to the Speedtronic located?
And what is "dependent upon age of the vehicle the electronic accelerator system"
Ps. MB hooked the computer to my car, and it did NOT report any errors or faults at all....
MB here in Denmark are idiots, they have so little experience with MB cars, cus there arent so many here cus of the high prices.... Where is the speed sensor to the Speedtronic located?
And what is "dependent upon age of the vehicle the electronic accelerator system"
Ps. MB hooked the computer to my car, and it did NOT report any errors or faults at all....
#4
06-22-2006, 04:58 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Mmm...Interesting!
So the error appears only when you select Speed Limiter. Does the Speedtronic Warning cancel when you turn the ign off/on? I assume so.
Your Cruise works fine. So this would appear to eliminate the speed sensor since it is used for Cruise. Do you use Cruise often? Do you use Limiter often?
No faults when MB scanned it. Strange. Was the warning displayed when they tested it?
Is this a new fault or has it possibly been on the car since you have owned it. i.e. Are you familiar with how to use the limiter. It's necessary to select the max. speed by pushing the lever upwards rather than towards you otherwise the limiter hasn't a reference value to set to. The warning suggests that the system hasn't got a reference value. 0 kph!
Does the warning come up when you press the end of the cruise lever to turn it ON (orange light) or when you move the lever to actually ENGAGE the limiter.
Please confirm what you mean by "very very slow" a little more. I assume you mean acceleration is poor rather than ability for car to travel at speed?
Did the Limiter and Lack of Performance occur at EXACTLY the same time. i.e. is there one or possibly two faults occuring?
Since the car is 2001 I now know what sort of accelerator system we are talking about. I note it is a 4 cyl. KOMPRESSOR.
I will have a further think about this. Lets see what else turns up from other members + the answers to my questions re when the fault occurs.
Stuart
So the error appears only when you select Speed Limiter. Does the Speedtronic Warning cancel when you turn the ign off/on? I assume so.
Your Cruise works fine. So this would appear to eliminate the speed sensor since it is used for Cruise. Do you use Cruise often? Do you use Limiter often?
No faults when MB scanned it. Strange. Was the warning displayed when they tested it?
Is this a new fault or has it possibly been on the car since you have owned it. i.e. Are you familiar with how to use the limiter. It's necessary to select the max. speed by pushing the lever upwards rather than towards you otherwise the limiter hasn't a reference value to set to. The warning suggests that the system hasn't got a reference value. 0 kph!
Does the warning come up when you press the end of the cruise lever to turn it ON (orange light) or when you move the lever to actually ENGAGE the limiter.
Please confirm what you mean by "very very slow" a little more. I assume you mean acceleration is poor rather than ability for car to travel at speed?
Did the Limiter and Lack of Performance occur at EXACTLY the same time. i.e. is there one or possibly two faults occuring?
Since the car is 2001 I now know what sort of accelerator system we are talking about. I note it is a 4 cyl. KOMPRESSOR.
I will have a further think about this. Lets see what else turns up from other members + the answers to my questions re when the fault occurs.
Stuart
#6
06-23-2006, 01:09 PM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Okay..
The error only comes up when i used the speed limiter yes. When i press the end of the cruise lever the orange light comes on, and there is no problem, but its when i move it upwards to engage the limiter the error appears.
Yes i know how to use the cruise control and the speed limiter
By very slow i mean poor acceleration, i can get the car to 200km/h thats not problem, but it takes for ever - BUT when the limiter works, the car acts normal.
"Did the Limiter and Lack of Performance occur at EXACTLY the same time. i.e. is there one or possibly two faults occuring?"
When the limiter is out and does not work, the performance is very bad, when it does work, everything is normal - The strange thing is, it comes and goes as it wishes, but only when i turn the car off and on, so what i am saying is:
"I turn on the car, and the limiter does not work, then i turn it off again, and i repeat this, 7-8 times and then all of a sudden the limiter will work again and everything is normal, until i turn the car off, and it will 95% come back with and error " - VERY STRANGE
Yes the car is a 4cyl komp.
I took the car to Mercedes in FLENSBORG in Germany today - They hooked the computer and couldt not find any faults whatsoever. They think its the cars main computer system that has and error, part number: A1111533679
They say everything points at its the computer that has and error, cus they cant read the fault code when they hook their digs. computer to the car, its shows nothing...
But they cant tell me 100%, so what do you guys rekon, can it be the cars main computer system that has and error?
Ps. The warning was ON when they scanned it yes.
Pps. Even if i dont turn on the limiter, so the fault does not appear, i can feel if the error is there cus of the lack of performance, so when i turn on the car and start driving i can feel if the fault is there or not, and then i try to turn on the limiter and the fault comes on my display, but as i said, it does not have to be on my display before i lose performance.
The error only comes up when i used the speed limiter yes. When i press the end of the cruise lever the orange light comes on, and there is no problem, but its when i move it upwards to engage the limiter the error appears.
Yes i know how to use the cruise control and the speed limiter
By very slow i mean poor acceleration, i can get the car to 200km/h thats not problem, but it takes for ever - BUT when the limiter works, the car acts normal.
"Did the Limiter and Lack of Performance occur at EXACTLY the same time. i.e. is there one or possibly two faults occuring?"
When the limiter is out and does not work, the performance is very bad, when it does work, everything is normal - The strange thing is, it comes and goes as it wishes, but only when i turn the car off and on, so what i am saying is:
"I turn on the car, and the limiter does not work, then i turn it off again, and i repeat this, 7-8 times and then all of a sudden the limiter will work again and everything is normal, until i turn the car off, and it will 95% come back with and error " - VERY STRANGE
Yes the car is a 4cyl komp.
I took the car to Mercedes in FLENSBORG in Germany today - They hooked the computer and couldt not find any faults whatsoever. They think its the cars main computer system that has and error, part number: A1111533679
They say everything points at its the computer that has and error, cus they cant read the fault code when they hook their digs. computer to the car, its shows nothing...
But they cant tell me 100%, so what do you guys rekon, can it be the cars main computer system that has and error?
Ps. The warning was ON when they scanned it yes.
Pps. Even if i dont turn on the limiter, so the fault does not appear, i can feel if the error is there cus of the lack of performance, so when i turn on the car and start driving i can feel if the fault is there or not, and then i try to turn on the limiter and the fault comes on my display, but as i said, it does not have to be on my display before i lose performance.
#7
06-24-2006, 05:51 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Hi bxtc,
As I said before...very interesting.
Thanks for such a good description.
Forgive me for clarifying whether you understood how to operate the system. Many people with ASR, ABS, ABC etc seem to have these systems yet do not understand how to operate them or know what they do. "Faults" are often due to a lack of understanding.
The dealer may be correct in stating that the ME ECU is at fault BUT!!! I come from a position that ECU's give little problem once they have "burnt in". Why should your problem start at 134k? Electronics, unlike mechanical components, don't wear out in the same way.
One point of clarification please.
What is digs(diagnostics?) In order to interrogate the ECU fully you need MB STAR diagnostics. Is this what they used?
The Cruise/Limiter system is an integrated part of the main ME ECU (N3/10). As is the Electronic accelerator (EA). The ME module receives messages via C CAN (digital) from all sorts of sources including those from the steering column Cruise Control (S40x1) switch, and the accelerator pedal. Your vehicle, like mine. has the Variable speed Limiter on it, which is not fitted in USA. (I wonder why?)
Since the engine runs fine when the limiter is OFF it suggests that the fundamental functions of the main ECU are OK. Why should the ECU give a problem at 134k and why should only the "addon" functionality have failed? Everybody rushes to blame black boxes because they don't understand how they work.
So what components could be at fault? The ME ECU, the switch, the connections between these components or a spurious (or nonplausible) input down the CAN.
Since the Limiter works fine for most of the time I would hazard to suggest that it is more likely an intermittent "mechanical" fault or a spurious signal.
Since the ME ECU unit will be MEGA expensive I suggest you start by inspecting and "cleaning" the various connections to the CAN.
Next I believe you should eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal since these are mechanical devices and the vehicle has now reached moderate mileage.
Since the error reports a speed issue it is possible that there could be a spurious signal down the CAN which "blocks/wipes" the speed reference value but since this could come from anywhere I don't have a strategy for finding it.
The ME ECU gets its speed signal down the same CAN C from the Instrument pack. Likewise the accerator input.
Have you examined the connectors to the ME ECU, the steering column switch, the accelerator pedal and the Instrument pack VERY CAREFULLY?
Connect/Disconnect several times.
Water/corrosion on the pins COULD upset communication between the boxes and this type of fault is in my view more feasible at high mileage than an ECU failure.
When did the fault occur. After rain/carwash/winter?
Just reread your post and noticed
"Pps. Even if i dont turn on the limiter, so the fault does not appear, i can feel if the error is there cus of the lack of performance, so when i turn on the car and start driving i can feel if the fault is there or not, and then i try to turn on the limiter and the fault comes on my display, but as i said, it does not have to be on my display before i lose performance. "
I believe this statement is VERY important since it suggests the Limiter fault is due to the Performance fault rather than the other way around. How can the limiter be at fault if the Performance problem exists when the Limiter is OFF.
Maybe the Limiter fault is actually advising what the root problem is....a speed signal fault.
Since speed is an important input to the EA, which controls throttle and therefore performance, I think we are getting nearer to the problem.
The thrust of what I have written above remains valid but EA is now the focus not the Limiter.
Hope this is useful.
Stuart
As I said before...very interesting.
Thanks for such a good description.
Forgive me for clarifying whether you understood how to operate the system. Many people with ASR, ABS, ABC etc seem to have these systems yet do not understand how to operate them or know what they do. "Faults" are often due to a lack of understanding.
The dealer may be correct in stating that the ME ECU is at fault BUT!!! I come from a position that ECU's give little problem once they have "burnt in". Why should your problem start at 134k? Electronics, unlike mechanical components, don't wear out in the same way.
One point of clarification please.
What is digs(diagnostics?) In order to interrogate the ECU fully you need MB STAR diagnostics. Is this what they used?
The Cruise/Limiter system is an integrated part of the main ME ECU (N3/10). As is the Electronic accelerator (EA). The ME module receives messages via C CAN (digital) from all sorts of sources including those from the steering column Cruise Control (S40x1) switch, and the accelerator pedal. Your vehicle, like mine. has the Variable speed Limiter on it, which is not fitted in USA. (I wonder why?)
Since the engine runs fine when the limiter is OFF it suggests that the fundamental functions of the main ECU are OK. Why should the ECU give a problem at 134k and why should only the "addon" functionality have failed? Everybody rushes to blame black boxes because they don't understand how they work.
So what components could be at fault? The ME ECU, the switch, the connections between these components or a spurious (or nonplausible) input down the CAN.
Since the Limiter works fine for most of the time I would hazard to suggest that it is more likely an intermittent "mechanical" fault or a spurious signal.
Since the ME ECU unit will be MEGA expensive I suggest you start by inspecting and "cleaning" the various connections to the CAN.
Next I believe you should eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal since these are mechanical devices and the vehicle has now reached moderate mileage.
Since the error reports a speed issue it is possible that there could be a spurious signal down the CAN which "blocks/wipes" the speed reference value but since this could come from anywhere I don't have a strategy for finding it.
The ME ECU gets its speed signal down the same CAN C from the Instrument pack. Likewise the accerator input.
Have you examined the connectors to the ME ECU, the steering column switch, the accelerator pedal and the Instrument pack VERY CAREFULLY?
Connect/Disconnect several times.
Water/corrosion on the pins COULD upset communication between the boxes and this type of fault is in my view more feasible at high mileage than an ECU failure.
When did the fault occur. After rain/carwash/winter?
Just reread your post and noticed
"Pps. Even if i dont turn on the limiter, so the fault does not appear, i can feel if the error is there cus of the lack of performance, so when i turn on the car and start driving i can feel if the fault is there or not, and then i try to turn on the limiter and the fault comes on my display, but as i said, it does not have to be on my display before i lose performance. "
I believe this statement is VERY important since it suggests the Limiter fault is due to the Performance fault rather than the other way around. How can the limiter be at fault if the Performance problem exists when the Limiter is OFF.
Maybe the Limiter fault is actually advising what the root problem is....a speed signal fault.
Since speed is an important input to the EA, which controls throttle and therefore performance, I think we are getting nearer to the problem.
The thrust of what I have written above remains valid but EA is now the focus not the Limiter.
Hope this is useful.
Stuart
#8
06-24-2006, 09:01 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
They say everything points at its the computer that has and error, cus they cant read the fault code when they hook their digs. computer to the car, its shows nothing...
i think a signal is missing.
#9
06-24-2006, 09:37 AM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Hello again!
Thank you so much for all your help.. i hope we soon can find the problem
Yes by "digs" i mean diagnostic, and yes they used the MB STAR diagnostics - Since the diagnostic did not report any error even though the car had an error MB said they think it is the ME ECU ( I learned the name from you hehe ).
You sound like a very pro in this, there are some thing i dont understand like:
What is the C CAN?
And you say;
"Since the ME ECU unit will be MEGA expensive I suggest you start by inspecting and "cleaning" the various connections to the CAN.
Next I believe you should eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal since these are mechanical devices and the vehicle has now reached moderate mileage.
Since the error reports a speed issue it is possible that there could be a spurious signal down the CAN which "blocks/wipes" the speed reference value but since this could come from anywhere I don't have a strategy for finding it"
Where is the can located? How can i clean it? And how do i eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal ?
"Have you examined the connectors to the ME ECU, the steering column switch, the accelerator pedal and the Instrument pack VERY CAREFULLY? "
And where is the ME ECU located, same with the steering column switch? What is it i should look for at the accelerator pedal and instrument pack?
And the EA, what is that?
Sorry if i sound so noob but this is to advance for the knowglegde i have on MB hehe...
One more thing, how come if i turn the car off and on a couple of times then it just works normal with no fault and the limiter also works normal... Doesnt this point to some kinda computer error, becuase i touch nothing, i just turn it off and an... And should i take your post with me to mercedes BEFORE they change the ME ECU, so they can RETHINK about thair statment?
Thank you very very much!
Thank you so much for all your help.. i hope we soon can find the problem
Yes by "digs" i mean diagnostic, and yes they used the MB STAR diagnostics - Since the diagnostic did not report any error even though the car had an error MB said they think it is the ME ECU ( I learned the name from you hehe ).
You sound like a very pro in this, there are some thing i dont understand like:
What is the C CAN?
And you say;
"Since the ME ECU unit will be MEGA expensive I suggest you start by inspecting and "cleaning" the various connections to the CAN.
Next I believe you should eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal since these are mechanical devices and the vehicle has now reached moderate mileage.
Since the error reports a speed issue it is possible that there could be a spurious signal down the CAN which "blocks/wipes" the speed reference value but since this could come from anywhere I don't have a strategy for finding it"
Where is the can located? How can i clean it? And how do i eliminate the switch and accelerator pedal ?
"Have you examined the connectors to the ME ECU, the steering column switch, the accelerator pedal and the Instrument pack VERY CAREFULLY? "
And where is the ME ECU located, same with the steering column switch? What is it i should look for at the accelerator pedal and instrument pack?
And the EA, what is that?
Sorry if i sound so noob but this is to advance for the knowglegde i have on MB hehe...
One more thing, how come if i turn the car off and on a couple of times then it just works normal with no fault and the limiter also works normal... Doesnt this point to some kinda computer error, becuase i touch nothing, i just turn it off and an... And should i take your post with me to mercedes BEFORE they change the ME ECU, so they can RETHINK about thair statment?
Thank you very very much!
#10
06-24-2006, 03:36 PM
RE: SPEEDTRONIC/CRUISE CONTROL ERROR?
Okay something i forgoet to mention sorry...
I didnt have none of these problems before i got the brakes and the brakes dics changed, i didnt change them my self, and i didnt go to MB for the change, a local workshop changed them for me (in germany where i got the car, i had to change brakes MB didnt have time), and after the change this faults came up, perhaps its just a coincidence, but i always did wonder if they did something wrong when they changed the brake disc, i am not so concerned about the brake pads, but the dics, maybe they did something wrong??
Can this have anything to do with this fault? MB said it was a coincident without even having a look at the brakes.
I didnt have none of these problems before i got the brakes and the brakes dics changed, i didnt change them my self, and i didnt go to MB for the change, a local workshop changed them for me (in germany where i got the car, i had to change brakes MB didnt have time), and after the change this faults came up, perhaps its just a coincidence, but i always did wonder if they did something wrong when they changed the brake disc, i am not so concerned about the brake pads, but the dics, maybe they did something wrong??
Can this have anything to do with this fault? MB said it was a coincident without even having a look at the brakes.