LUGNUT and SCOREBOX....thank you for your replies

i am saying he is wrong because he stated this

"When you start to modify the engine you should start in this order... 1. ECU 2. intake 3. pulleys 4. headers 5. centre pipe 6. rear box. You would use this order for a reason, its simple... take a look at it. The ECU is the brain of the operation so you can add the biggest exhaust and intake but unless you tell the brain"

and LUGNUT posted this which means the same as me and K1...these are MODS

"If you added bigger heads, bigger injectors, and bigger cam, you definitely DON'T want the needed ECU adjustments before the mods are installed. "

 

Yeah, but that's only part of what I said. I said it's okay to do some ECU tuning before any mods. Some tuning must be be done along with a mod. Some tuning will have to be re-tuned for future mods.

A quick example of what I mean. The air/fuel mix can be leaned and the ignition timing advanced without doing any mods. You'd get a slight performance increase with the stock setup. However, you'd want to undo this tuning and go in the other direction (richen and retard) if you added nitrous or boost in the future. This re-tuning must be done at the same time as the mod is installed because you don't want a lean mix or advanced timing with either. Conversely, you don't want a rich mix and retarded timing without the mods, so you shouldn't do the tuning before the mods.

 

sorry guys... but i still disagree and im gonna leave it at that. I hear what your saying from most of my customers and then after a while i just give up trying to explain... infact im gonna give you one example.

i know this is a MB forum but im gonna give you a example using a BMW because i see it all the time (hope i haven't offended anyone).
Kid buys an BMW M3.... he now buys a new intake for his car.... the car now starts cutting off at 3000 rpm... guess what? the standard programme won't adapt. i have programmed enough cars to know what im saying, this will just be a case that we can't agree on.

 

What you're saying doesn't totally invalidate what anyone is saying. It's an example of needing ECU tuning along with a particular mod. But, I'll leave it at that.

 

Lugnut... i understand what your saying totally but most people don't understand what im saying. i've been in this trade for a long time, i know the pro's and con's... i know when a company tells you their gonna modify a file to suit your mods but they don't... its all about marketing and selling techniques. There is companies out there who will charge you again and again according to your mods... so what is the word on the street? i don't get it? imagine i modify my cars and use a pulley kit and then realize i don't like the pulley kit? do i have to buy a programme from the tuning centre down the street who claim they write software but all they really do is retail someone elses software? people like that make this business sound dirty.


the end.

 

Thanks for everyones input.
I plan to keep it simple as far as mods go, Green airfilters, pulleys, Ecu flash. I have owned a couple of Corvettes and at least 8 Mustangs. I still own an '89 Gt that I drag race. I know all about modding cars but I was not sure what I could do to the C55 AMG since this is the first European car I have owned, by the way I am thourghly in love with this car.

Fred

 

jags, All I'm saying, and it may be too simple a point for such a complicated subject, is that I prefer ECU tuning to fit what I have (if it's necessary) and that future mods may require further tuning.

If I tell you I may add nitrous to my car in the future and you retard my timing and fatten my air/fuel mix now, I would be very unhappy with you and the tuning. I would want the opposite for my current naturally aspirated engine and a re-tune in the future if I add nitrous.

On the other hand, if you can program a dormant adjustment that "wakes up" if and when I do add nitrous, then that's something I'm not aware of and it explains to my satisfaction what you're saying. I can't imagine, though, how the air/fuel mix and timing strategies can automatically reverse themselves just because I squirt some juice into the intake stream.

Help me (us) out here. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

Lugnut,

nitrous is a different ball game... most people would only use a nitrous kit on a older car. Most customers only go far as ECU, intake, pulleys, TCU, headers, centre pipe and back box. If warranty isn't a issue then the customer can go as far as he likes. Once the car has had the software upgraded and the customer decides to change the centre pipe and rear box the new programme will adapt, when using the dyno through the stages of upgrading the results are there... after 4 or 5 runs the car becomes quicker as the software adapts. If a customer has in mind what he wants to do with his car we can make the software accordingly, this doesn't mean the car won't run right until all the mods have been complete... it will adapt.

 

I understand. Your programming is for mild mods made by the mainstream of owners. Radical mods would be better left to other programmers who can provide programming outside the bounds of the norm.

 

I got the hook up on ECU tuning if you want. The correct answer to this debate is that the best way to get your ECU tuned is to have it tuned ON THE DYNO! Small mods such as intake, air filters, exhaust, etc. do not require modifications to the ECU since the MAF is what actually determines how much air is coming in and O2 sensors determine whats going out. SO the ECU just receives the signal from these sensors telling it whats coming in and out and computes how much fuel to dump. Now if you change cams or pullies or something you will need to retune your ECU and tell it what changes you have made (theres no way the ECU can tell if you changed these things so dont even try). Of course the best thing you can do to your C55 is get a kleemann S/C but its also one of the most expensive. SO depending on how much money you have to spend, I can try and help you out. I dont own a shop or anything, I'm just a benz enthusiast that LOVES to mod cars. If you are in the DC area, we have rented Capitol Raceway for the day and will have MANY nice cars there (A few 600+hp E55's, renntech C32, NEW Z06, NEW M5, s/c CLK430, etc etc). Its gonna be alot of fun and you can run til you or your car drops! We are keeping attendance limited so let me know soon if you or anyone else would like to attend.