I've heard more than one reference to Hondas being easier to work on, cheaper to work on, and more reliable than Mercedes in this forum. Well, having owned 3 Hondas and 1 Mercedes, I can say that in my own experience the opposite is true.

Hondas are much more compactly woven than Mercedes, especially in the '80s. I had an '89 Accord, an '88 Integra, and an '88 Accord before I bought my '84 MB 190E 2.3. I had to replace the alternator in the Integra and the'88 Accord, and both took an exorbitant amount of time (6 hours for the Acura, 12 hours for the Accord) because half the car had to be dismantled just to access it. Every space in which one worked was an inch or my shy of comfortable movement. The alternators were about $130 a piece. I priced an alternator for my Benz and it was $150. OK, $20 more expensive, but big deal. They're both ridiculously overpriced import parts.

Mercedes are a pleasure to work on. They have so much space under the hood, under the dash, in the door panels, etc. They are much more intuitively and simply put together. From the fiber-optic illumination(as opposed to the 50+ bulbs in the dash of a Honda), to the door panels that can be removed simply by pulling up without having to break any clips, to the easily serviceable instrument cluster, Mercedes are a joy to work on after spending my life under the hoods of Hondas.

Plus, the driving experience of a 22-year-old Benz beats that of a brand new Honda. Hands down.

Wow. I need to go to bed.

 

I'm NOT a Honda-person. I've bought two new Hondas in the past, and didn't keep either one more than six months. I bought one of the accord V6 with the 6speed manual tranny, and hated the way it bounced around on its springs. Oh well, a teen girl bought it and loves it.

I had the fuel injectors out of my old MercedesB the other day, and I was thnking, "wow look how nicely made these injectors are!" No band-aids required! lol

enjoy your car

Charles

 

it is true that hondas are really tight to work on. very tight.

but, mazda millenia S wins the tightest and the most unorganized engine compartment.

and yes, japanese cars use plastic clips that break easily.


the reason hondas are very popular and that they retain value over time is that they do not post major mechanical problem as they age.

let me explain. if you have a kid going to college, you will be better off giving them a honda than a benz. (a good used one i am talking bout here.) there is no risk of weird or a surprise mechanical problem from a honda. alternator may go out. water pump may need replacing. but there is little or no chance of transmission, engine, or suspension problem. this is widely-accepted fact, that's why used honda's resale value are very very high.

of course the most reliable ones are not hondas. corolla is the most reliable, and if i want to spend a little more money on a college-bound kid, i will buy him/her a camry.

on the contrary, look at audi for instance. even a brand new one will develop weirdo problems like oxygen sensors, ball joints and tie rods. unbelievable.

 

I wrote a post about the durability/dependability of Japanese cars vs. whatever on another forum, and so chirp in here.

In reference to the previous post, my question is, WHY is it a widely accepted fact? Has there been an actual reliable survey done to document the superiority of Japanese durability/dependability? I've never seen one. It would seem to me that one excellent measurement would be to do a survey of all cars at "retirement," and then see which ones last the longest. I'd like to see a genuine study that really measured concrete mechanical issues - and not just touchy-feely "customer satisfaction."

I have frequently heard people say they believe Japanese cars are more reliable (why?) because they heard about some friend or other who had a car w/ 200,000 miles and it never saw a mechanic. The problem is, that's not evidence, it's anecdotes. Personally, I once had a manual 82 Datsun 200sx last over 200,000 before it got smacked; but I had a 70 Ford Galaxie 500 auto go even longer.

Is it possible that the Japanese have had a superior marketing campaign, rather than genuine mechancial superiority?

As for used Japanese vs American cars (I only buy used these days, as new cars depreciate over half their value in 3 years), I will always opt for American. For less money (because of the Japanese myth) I can buy a larger, better equipped car w/ a bigger engine. US carmakers have had some lemons, but so have rice burners. I look at each make/model, and even each car, individually.

That's my take on it, anyway.

 

Good take,

I know a little about business, and I have given some thought to this as well. The first closest issue is the fact that my wife "loves" Hondas, and I "love" Mercedes, and we both have no interest in each other's cars.

I think it boils down to competitive advatages, competitive priorities, consumer priorities, and comsumer behavior. Face it my wife and I look for different things in cars. She loves her Honda Odyssey because it never breaks according to her. And the dealer treats her like she's a fool, and tells her everytime her car needs repair, that "she broke it". So I wonder if there is a great deal of consumer conditioning involved in these surveys.

Me, on the other hand, I expect small things to happen when the car gets old. 150k+ and do not give the companies any grief for it. . But I absolutely would not tolerate a lecture, or a mind conditioning by my Mercedes Dealer, and they have never insulted me with one. Now I have gone over on my service B etc, they let me know that, and I acknowledge it, but it ends there.

Here's a strange thing that occured to me after I bought a new 94 Toyota. They asked me to fill out the quality control survey after the test-drive, while the car was being prepped. Now at the time it didn't seem strange, or that the sales lady told me she really needed a good report. Three months later after I discovered that the spare wheel didn't fit the hub, on a dark dirt road 330mi from my house, and the front window leaked water and wistled, and the engine leaked 1tsp of oil on my drive every day, and the body was as flemsy as a pie-pan, then I understood. So I learned what "initial quality" meant. It means the first ten minutes with the car, and I had helped create that sorry upbeat data with my survey. If they had mailed that survey to me three months later, they would have heard a much different report from me.

Blue

 

Quality aside, it seems the germans, particularly mercedes, think before they design. Although there are many more examples, two of them are this: The contact switch on the drivers door and the truck, (at least on my 190E) can be turned off by pulling outward on them. This is because if the trunk or drivers door is left open for an extended period of time the lights can be shut off to save the battery. But when you close the door or the trunk the switch goes back to normal operation. Now that is thought.

Another thing that somebody pointed out to me one time: The glove box handle is on the left side of the glove box! this is so that the driver doesn't have to reach extra far to open the glove box. This isn't something that happened by chance, it was incorporated into the design of the car, most auto makers put the handle in the middle, for symetrical appearance, rather than function. take a look at almost any japanese or american manufacturer, they still haven't gotten the idea.

PS, the loop shaped door handles that nearly all auto makers use is from a mercedes design. this design is better and easier to use than push or pull handles.

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