I strongly suspect you're right to use a little kerosene, especially in winter time Ill.... Still, Henry of Schuman's automotive says the new low sulfur diesel fuel will thin the veggie oil nearly as well as kerosene... He says the ULSD seems to be without that oily feel.... much like gasoline.... and, regardless of who said what, it would be a cold day in hell, or simply a stupid mistake, before I'd add gasoline to the fuel tank of Bruno, my great, old 1982, 300D T! )
Since I tend to take Henry Schumans advice, this winter I'm burning a 50/50 mixture of WVO and ULSD. But, unlike you, I heat my WVO to 90* just as it comes out of the fuel tank, then and electric pump pushes it up to the engine compartment, through the filter and into another heater which takes it to 150* just before it enters the injection pump.

I consider Western WA, especially on the water, to be somewhat moderate. Yet we just had our first freeze which came surprisingly early and hard ( 26*) and the 50/50 mixture in the clear filters seems to be still very thin, with little to no viscosity.
Still, even though I heat my WVO, if it gets any colder, I'll continue to thin only with ULSD but lower the % of WVO...

Hello,
The temp was 24* when I left work. I cycled the glow plugs twice and she fired right up. I park outside at work ,so I probably won't increase the wvo ratio until it warms up. How long does it take for your oil to get warm enough to start the car? I like the fact that you are using one fuel tank. Why do you have an electric fuel pump after the first heater? I may do something similar to your system, then I could run larger amounts of veggie oil. Did you have to modify the alternator or battery for the current draw from the heaters/pump?

Thanks,
Regards,
John

 

That sounds great John. Still, if you continue to use a small amount of veggie oil, I suspect all you need is to add #2 diesel and forget the expensive kerosene. My oil reaches 150* in about 2 1/2 minutes. I then turn it to glow plug and let it sit there, even after the lights gone out, for 1/2 minute, for a total of 3 minutes. It starts smooth and on the first crank.

I then let it warm up for 2 or 3 minutes and slowly drive up to about 40 mph until the temp reaches around 80*... which is about the time I reach the freeway. Then, if I have the room, I do an Italian Overhaul by entering the freeway peddle to meddle unitl it reaches 80 or 85 mph, then slow back to around 70. The first time I did that it smoked like hell. I guess all the carbon has been blown out, because it no longer smokes....
It's not as fast as our Lexus but it now runs like a gasser. That's because the valves are well adjusted, injector nozzles new and clean, EGR blocked with a bb, switchover valve is by passed, i.e., the tube from the banjo nut on the intake manifold runs directly to the ALDA..... I haven't adjusted the nut on the ALDA simply because it has more than enough speed for me....

The first heater is called the Fuel Sump Chamber and mounted on the same bracket as the electric fuel pump. It's located below the fuel tank and next to the spare tire, thus insuring a constant, positive, gravity flow into the Fuel Sump Chamber as well as the electric fuel pump.

In case of an extra cold day and the oil loses its heat on the way to the engine compartment, the electric pump makes it easy on the mechanical fuel injection pump..... and delivers more than enough fuel for any given moment. I bought these 2 very elegant WVO/SVO modules from Kent Bergsma of mercedessource.com AKA http://www.greaseon.com Kent claims the electric pump also often gives a small increase in hp...
Henry Schuman doesn't see the point of an additional electric fuel pump... [8D]but I like the added insurance.. besides that, the electric pump does all of the work when I change the fuel filter and need to bleed the air out of the system. I just turn on the fuel return switch for a couple of minutes and let the plump bleed it back into the fuel tank.
I haven't modified the alternator but I'm seriously considering buying the Optima red deck battery, and either putting a faster pulley on the altenator or installing a higher amp alternator. In the meantime I carry the Husky battery jumper which I've only used on one occasion.

BTW, here's a photo show of my WVO set up. You can see the 5/16" fuel line under the tank
was replaced with 1/2" fuel line... It then enters the spare tire storage compartment and goes into the Fuel sump chamber, etc. http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/sq8Tf9aA

 

That sounds great John. Still, if you continue to use a small amount of veggie oil, I suspect all you need is to add #2 diesel and forget the expensive kerosene. My oil reaches 150* in about 2 1/2 minutes. I then turn it to glow plug and let it sit there, even after the lights gone out, for 1/2 minute, for a total of 3 minutes. It starts smooth and on the first crank.

I then let it warm up for 2 or 3 minutes and slowly drive up to about 40 mph until the temp reaches around 80*... which is about the time I reach the freeway. Then, if I have the room, I do an Italian Overhaul by entering the freeway peddle to meddle unitl it reaches 80 or 85 mph, then slow back to around 70. The first time I did that it smoked like hell. I guess all the carbon has been blown out, because it no longer smokes....
It's not as fast as our Lexus but it now runs like a gasser. That's because the valves are well adjusted, injector nozzles new and clean, EGR blocked with a bb, switchover valve is by passed, i.e., the tube from the banjo nut on the intake manifold runs directly to the ALDA..... I haven't adjusted the nut on the ALDA simply because it has more than enough speed for me....

The first heater is called the Fuel Sump Chamber and mounted on the same bracket as the electric fuel pump. It's located below the fuel tank and next to the spare tire, thus insuring a constant, positive, gravity flow into the Fuel Sump Chamber as well as the electric fuel pump.

In case of an extra cold day and the oil loses its heat on the way to the engine compartment, the electric pump makes it easy on the mechanical fuel injection pump..... and delivers more than enough fuel for any given moment. I bought these 2 very elegant WVO/SVO modules from Kent Bergsma of mercedessource.com AKA http://www.greaseon.com Kent claims the electric pump also often gives a small increase in hp...
Henry Schuman doesn't see the point of an additional electric fuel pump... [8D]but I like the added insurance.. besides that, the electric pump does all of the work when I change the fuel filter and need to bleed the air out of the system. I just turn on the fuel return switch for a couple of minutes and let the plump bleed it back into the fuel tank.
I haven't modified the alternator but I'm seriously considering buying the Optima red deck battery, and either putting a faster pulley on the altenator or installing a higher amp alternator. In the meantime I carry the Husky battery jumper which I've only used on one occasion.

BTW, here's a photo show of my WVO set up. You can see the 5/16" fuel line under the tank
was replaced with 1/2" fuel line... It then enters the spare tire storage compartment and goes into the Fuel sump chamber, etc....http://mailcenter.comcast.net/wmc/v/...=366642&sid=c0

Thanks!!!
I checked out your photo show, very helpful, NICE CAR!! I went to greason.com also and was checking out their systems. Did you buy the single tank system,then add the optional heater/pump? I like the professional look of the brackets and wiring they use. How long have you been running this system? You probably mentioned this earlier but..... What ratio of wvo/diesel do you use in the spring ,summer? Sorry for all the questions, I am very interested in this, don't really want to try making bio... like I said, my garage is connected to my house. I am very confident in my ability, but methanol is pretty combustable!! Besides, from what i've read, you can't use bio in cold weather anyway..

Thanks Again,
Regards,
John

 

Thank you. The best thing about it is no rust, no cracks in dash and I paid $400. for it.

I first bought the Fuel manager, then added the fuel sump chamber with electric fuel pump. It works well for me and since it was made for my model, it very easy to install. It only took about 6 hours, including draining the tank and has worked flawlessly from the very beginning.
Before that I had installed a greasecar 2 tank system in a 1990 Jetta ecodiesel. It took a couple of weeks to install the thing, and another couple of months tweeking it... Boy, compared to the greaseon modules, the greasecar was a big pain in the a$$.

It's very elegant. I've been using it for about 3 months and I wouldn't trade it for any other system..... well, maybe I'd trade it for an Elsbet, provided they did all of the work...


I use 100% WVO in the summer, and start adding a little ULSD as it gets colder. I'm not precise... I simply look at the color in the clear filters and lighten it as it gets colder.

No problem with the questions.... I asked questions all over the net.... still do... Most people love to help, so asking questions is good for everyone. Yeah, I too definitely wouldn't make BD in an attached garage. I recently put up a shed and thought fleetingly about it... yet even if I had a newer, direct injection diesel, which an Elsbet system can handle, bd seems so unecessary, fussy and expensive.

But those who make it are almost religious about it... and that's fine if it gives them pleasure... And yes, when I used commercial BD during the winter I thinned it with dino diesel.... I'm driven to limit my use of dino diesel, but as I said earlier, it's hard to find commercial BD, and even then the ASTM is suspect.... not in Europe where they have strong laws, but suspect here in the US. The nice thing about VO is I can drive across country and find a Costco just about everywhere. It cost a little over $17.00 for 4.35 gallons of soybean salad oil..... and old Bruno loves it as much as he loves the taste of Terriaki in the WVO....

 

But those who make it are almost religious about it... and that's fine if it gives them pleasure... And yes, when I used commercial BD during the winter I thinned it with dino diesel.... I'm driven to limit my use of dino diesel, but as I said earlier, it's hard to find commercial BD, and even then the ASTM is suspect.... not in Europe where they have strong laws, but suspect here in the US. The nice thing about VO is I can drive across country and find a Costco just about everywhere. It cost a little over $17.00 for 4.35 gallons of soybean salad oil..... and old Bruno loves it as much as he loves the taste of Terriaki in the WVO....


Hello Charles, I met with the owner of a chinese resturaunt today. I am going to supply him with a 55 gallon drum. I was going
to try and get it straight from the fryer, but I probably cannot use all he will generate, and that way he is not waiting for me to
pick it up. I can go pump some out as needed. Thanks again for your help and advice. I'm still running the 80/10/10 mix. I probably
won't increase the WVO ratio until it warms up, or until I get fuel line heating of some kind. (probably greason....)

Regards,
John

 

Hello John,
Great news re: the Chinese restaurant. I admire your open minded attempt to learn the solutions of those on other alternative fuel forums. As you get deeper and deeper into WVO you may come up with something so unigue that you'll just have to share it with the rest of us...
Until then,
The very best of luck and my highest regards,
charlie

 

BTW, another very knowledgable WVO forum is http://www.frybrid.com/forum/ Like anywhere else, ou'll find a lot of opinions that sound more like a religion than anything else.. but they are smart folks with a lot of very useful info...

 

With all due respect to Mr. Munn, vegetable oil has been used in Diesel engines for over 100 years. In fact, peanut oil was the original fuel used during the development of Rudolph Diesel's engine. Burning vegetable oil is certainly NOT in the "early experimental stages" when it comes to fueling Diesel engines, and it definitely cannot ruin an engine. C'mon now.

You can have a problem with Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) if it contains moisture, or if it is not filtered properly. And, the recent WVO systems specify heating the oil to between 150-160 Degrees F before injection, so if you are pumping cold WVO you could be in some serious trouble. And yes, installing a system that performs a petrodiesel purge before shutting the engine down is a good idea. Millions of trouble-free miles have been logged by people who have installed well designed conversion kits in their cars and trucks to burn vegoil.

If done properly, vegoil is better, safer, cleaner and more efficient than petro diesel ANY day of the week.

 

I strongly suspect that anyone who has ever contemplated using VO as a fuel knows the Rudolph Diesel story, but that in no way proves that, in the long run, raw VO is better than petroleum diesel, or biodiesel. Certainly I hope it turns out that the use of raw VO is the future of diesels, and that at least some of the experimental kits are on the right track, and I applaud all of those who experiment with it. In that regard, I strongly suspect that a modern diesel engine could be built with the sole notion of burning raw VO.

But it's also very apparent that some who produce kits designed to lower the viscosity of raw VO all too often advertize that they have all of the facts and that raw VO is a proven fuel... As one who has been using VO for nearly 2 years, and who fervently hopes that it will not coke up and damage my autos, unlike you, I don't take things on faith. I don't choose to believe this thing or that thing simply because I want it to be so. That said, I strongly suspect that anyone who advertizes their product as the end all be all of burning raw VO for fuel is either extremely ignorant of the facts, or is merely another scam artist. That is, most honest people who produce raw VO kits will be the first to acknowledge that raw VO as fuel is still in the early experimental stages.

But by your initial tone, it seems apparent that you are a fervent believer in raw VO as a fuel and that belief is akin to a religion. In that regard, since I burn raw WVO in my old MB 300D T, and intend to buy a small diesel truck and do the same, I truly hope your belief comes to fruition.... But until that time I also hope that you encourage those who are now considering to burn raw VO in their, often very expensive autos, to do the research. Read the test results of the early studies of burning raw VO which rapidly coked up engines, as well as the newer German Study done in Sept of 2005 ..... Hell, if you could bring yourself to read such sacriligious documents done by those with truly rigorous, agnostic minds, even you might learn a thing or two.