'83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
#1
10-30-2008, 01:18 PM
'83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
I'm really asking which one is the better value?
I'm considering one of these for my first diesel:
Car 1:
1987 300SDL at a Mercedes dealer, 140,000 miles, service records for the last 3 years (done at this very dealership), one dent, couple of dings here and there and a scuffed front bumper. Interior is clean without any rips in the leather, dash is not cracked. Everything seems to work on it. The A/C was just serviced and I think a trans service was performed within the last 20,000 miles. The front suspension had some new parts done as well. Still has original head, though I have to check what number it is. Was a two owner car prior to being traded in. I don't have any photos of it but the paint is in fine shape and it looks really good overall.
I've got the dealer down to $6500. Anyone think that is a good deal? Or is that way too much money for a 22 year old car?
Car 2:
1983 300SD with 210,000 miles on it. I have no intention of restoring it to like new condition or anything like that, I just want it to be a solid reliable first diesel. It was a dealer trade in on a new car. I've gotten the price down to $1650 but probably can't get anything else off. The issues on the car are rust on the quarter panels and some on the driver side rear fender. The AC does not blow cold and the back window regulator needs to be replaced, it won't stay up. The dashboard is cracked / split in about 3 places which looks bad. One piece of wood on the driver's side is hanging off and looks shot. The transmission holds 1st gear too long before engaging 2nd. Otherwise seems to shift OK. The paint on the roof is burnt out and faded. Some of the edge spots on the car have faded paint too. Though about 80% of the car's paint looks like it could be restored nicely with a solid waxing. The doors all have that worn out clicking sound, they close level and perfect though. The inside is on the dingy side of the spectrum. I can smell diesel fumes inside the car while driving it. It has 4 brand new tires, brand new Interstate battery, definitely straight body, every seam lines up flawlessly. It's never been hit. An Alpine stereo with remote, seems like a higher end model, and the sunroof works. The trunk felt dry and looked really clean. It had the MB Tex seats and there are no rips in any of them. The engine seems strong, I drove it for an hour on the highway and when I floored it, say from 45 up to 80, it seemed to have very good power. It did seem a bit louder under the hood than I expected.
I took it to an independent Mercedes shop and they looked it over for about an hour, including test driving it and putting it up on the lift. No compression test though but the main guy told me they'd get a pretty clear idea of what issues the car had even without it. Here's what they came up with:
They thought the transmission's long shift from 1st to 2nd could possibly be remedied by adjustment but they weren't certain of that. They told me that the trans had been rebuilt so recently that the fluid was perfect and the Torque converter looked brand new.
The emergency break doesn't work. They found the valves need adjustment and the valve gasket is leaking oil. It will eventually need front suspension parts which include L/R tie rods, lower ball joints and idler arm bushings. The guy said I could wait on some of the repairs though. I also noticed that the engine rocks back and forth pretty hard while at idle, the mechanic didn't mention it and I only noticed it after I had left.
Do you think this car is worth the money?
Do you think this is a better overall value than the 300SDL?
I realize these are drastically different cars, that probably represent both ends of the buying spectrum.
I'd rather spend less but not if the 300SD is going to cost me $6000 in repairs within the first 15,000 miles anyway.
With the 300SD I still have the tangible risk of blowing the head on the engine, but I'm not sure how probable that is?
What would you folks go for?
Thanks,
Walt
Here are some pictures of the 300SD:
I'm considering one of these for my first diesel:
Car 1:
1987 300SDL at a Mercedes dealer, 140,000 miles, service records for the last 3 years (done at this very dealership), one dent, couple of dings here and there and a scuffed front bumper. Interior is clean without any rips in the leather, dash is not cracked. Everything seems to work on it. The A/C was just serviced and I think a trans service was performed within the last 20,000 miles. The front suspension had some new parts done as well. Still has original head, though I have to check what number it is. Was a two owner car prior to being traded in. I don't have any photos of it but the paint is in fine shape and it looks really good overall.
I've got the dealer down to $6500. Anyone think that is a good deal? Or is that way too much money for a 22 year old car?
Car 2:
1983 300SD with 210,000 miles on it. I have no intention of restoring it to like new condition or anything like that, I just want it to be a solid reliable first diesel. It was a dealer trade in on a new car. I've gotten the price down to $1650 but probably can't get anything else off. The issues on the car are rust on the quarter panels and some on the driver side rear fender. The AC does not blow cold and the back window regulator needs to be replaced, it won't stay up. The dashboard is cracked / split in about 3 places which looks bad. One piece of wood on the driver's side is hanging off and looks shot. The transmission holds 1st gear too long before engaging 2nd. Otherwise seems to shift OK. The paint on the roof is burnt out and faded. Some of the edge spots on the car have faded paint too. Though about 80% of the car's paint looks like it could be restored nicely with a solid waxing. The doors all have that worn out clicking sound, they close level and perfect though. The inside is on the dingy side of the spectrum. I can smell diesel fumes inside the car while driving it. It has 4 brand new tires, brand new Interstate battery, definitely straight body, every seam lines up flawlessly. It's never been hit. An Alpine stereo with remote, seems like a higher end model, and the sunroof works. The trunk felt dry and looked really clean. It had the MB Tex seats and there are no rips in any of them. The engine seems strong, I drove it for an hour on the highway and when I floored it, say from 45 up to 80, it seemed to have very good power. It did seem a bit louder under the hood than I expected.
I took it to an independent Mercedes shop and they looked it over for about an hour, including test driving it and putting it up on the lift. No compression test though but the main guy told me they'd get a pretty clear idea of what issues the car had even without it. Here's what they came up with:
They thought the transmission's long shift from 1st to 2nd could possibly be remedied by adjustment but they weren't certain of that. They told me that the trans had been rebuilt so recently that the fluid was perfect and the Torque converter looked brand new.
The emergency break doesn't work. They found the valves need adjustment and the valve gasket is leaking oil. It will eventually need front suspension parts which include L/R tie rods, lower ball joints and idler arm bushings. The guy said I could wait on some of the repairs though. I also noticed that the engine rocks back and forth pretty hard while at idle, the mechanic didn't mention it and I only noticed it after I had left.
Do you think this car is worth the money?
Do you think this is a better overall value than the 300SDL?
I realize these are drastically different cars, that probably represent both ends of the buying spectrum.
I'd rather spend less but not if the 300SD is going to cost me $6000 in repairs within the first 15,000 miles anyway.
With the 300SD I still have the tangible risk of blowing the head on the engine, but I'm not sure how probable that is?
What would you folks go for?
Thanks,
Walt
Here are some pictures of the 300SD:
#2
10-30-2008, 01:24 PM
RE: '83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
The pictures didn't post so here are the links to them:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-1.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-2.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-3.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-4.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-5.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-6.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-1.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-2.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-3.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-4.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-5.jpg
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/MB_W/Benz-6.jpg
#3
10-30-2008, 02:44 PM
RE: '83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
Well, only you can decide if it's worth it to you. A lot of that probably depends on whether or not you do your own mechanic work. For $1,650. that looks like a pretty solid car and with a couple grand in repairs you could drive it for at least another decade.
#4
10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
RE: '83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
ORIGINAL: cycleboy
For $1,650. that looks like a pretty solid car and with a couple grand in repairs you could drive it for at least another decade.
For $1,650. that looks like a pretty solid car and with a couple grand in repairs you could drive it for at least another decade.
The rebuilt transmission is what I like most about it.
How bad do you think the rust is on this car?
#5
10-30-2008, 06:56 PM
RE: '83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
From the pictures it looks like it's easily repairable surface rust. I think $700-$1000. at a decent body shop would really take care of the appearance issues. I didn't see (again, I'm only looking at the pictures) anyplace where there were holes rusted through it. The most common places are the four jack points, the bottoms of the rear quarter panels, the front apron, and the support hardware for the front and rear bumper trim.
Window regulator repair should be about 1-2 hours labor and about $250 in parts. Motor mounts (if that's the reason behind the excess shaking) are about $20-$30 each or so and also should only be 1-2 hours labor. The tie rod assemblies can be bought fairly cheaply from Mercedes (less than they cost for one tie rod end at Napa Auto Parts) and can be put on inexpensively as well.
The two things that bother me the most are the diesel smell while driving and the a/c. Check to make sure there are no leaks and also that the exhaust is intact. There's an accordion section of exhaust just off the turbo that frequently splits and it's located just in front of an intake for the climate control system. The cost of the a/c will depend on why it doesn't work and whether or not it's already been converted to R134a. At the very least you'll be looking at a new drier (about $35-$40) and three pounds of refrigerant. Worst case scenario would be a new condenser (they crack at the forward mounts - $220) and/or a new compressor. I had my a/c taken care of this summer. The estimate to repair and refill with R-12 was $1,200. and I went ahead and did it myself and did the R-134a conversion for $400.
Window regulator repair should be about 1-2 hours labor and about $250 in parts. Motor mounts (if that's the reason behind the excess shaking) are about $20-$30 each or so and also should only be 1-2 hours labor. The tie rod assemblies can be bought fairly cheaply from Mercedes (less than they cost for one tie rod end at Napa Auto Parts) and can be put on inexpensively as well.
The two things that bother me the most are the diesel smell while driving and the a/c. Check to make sure there are no leaks and also that the exhaust is intact. There's an accordion section of exhaust just off the turbo that frequently splits and it's located just in front of an intake for the climate control system. The cost of the a/c will depend on why it doesn't work and whether or not it's already been converted to R134a. At the very least you'll be looking at a new drier (about $35-$40) and three pounds of refrigerant. Worst case scenario would be a new condenser (they crack at the forward mounts - $220) and/or a new compressor. I had my a/c taken care of this summer. The estimate to repair and refill with R-12 was $1,200. and I went ahead and did it myself and did the R-134a conversion for $400.
#6
10-30-2008, 08:35 PM
RE: '83 300SD - '87 300SDL Which one's cheaper?
ORIGINAL: cycleboy
From the pictures it looks like it's easily repairable surface rust. I think $700-$1000. at a decent body shop would really take care of the appearance issues. I didn't see (again, I'm only looking at the pictures) anyplace where there were holes rusted through it. The most common places are the four jack points, the bottoms of the rear quarter panels, the front apron, and the support hardware for the front and rear bumper trim.
Window regulator repair should be about 1-2 hours labor and about $250 in parts. Motor mounts (if that's the reason behind the excess shaking) are about $20-$30 each or so and also should only be 1-2 hours labor. The tie rod assemblies can be bought fairly cheaply from Mercedes (less than they cost for one tie rod end at Napa Auto Parts) and can be put on inexpensively as well.
The two things that bother me the most are the diesel smell while driving and the a/c. Check to make sure there are no leaks and also that the exhaust is intact. There's an accordion section of exhaust just off the turbo that frequently splits and it's located just in front of an intake for the climate control system. The cost of the a/c will depend on why it doesn't work and whether or not it's already been converted to R134a. At the very least you'll be looking at a new drier (about $35-$40) and three pounds of refrigerant. Worst case scenario would be a new condenser (they crack at the forward mounts - $220) and/or a new compressor. I had my a/c taken care of this summer. The estimate to repair and refill with R-12 was $1,200. and I went ahead and did it myself and did the R-134a conversion for $400.
From the pictures it looks like it's easily repairable surface rust. I think $700-$1000. at a decent body shop would really take care of the appearance issues. I didn't see (again, I'm only looking at the pictures) anyplace where there were holes rusted through it. The most common places are the four jack points, the bottoms of the rear quarter panels, the front apron, and the support hardware for the front and rear bumper trim.
Window regulator repair should be about 1-2 hours labor and about $250 in parts. Motor mounts (if that's the reason behind the excess shaking) are about $20-$30 each or so and also should only be 1-2 hours labor. The tie rod assemblies can be bought fairly cheaply from Mercedes (less than they cost for one tie rod end at Napa Auto Parts) and can be put on inexpensively as well.
The two things that bother me the most are the diesel smell while driving and the a/c. Check to make sure there are no leaks and also that the exhaust is intact. There's an accordion section of exhaust just off the turbo that frequently splits and it's located just in front of an intake for the climate control system. The cost of the a/c will depend on why it doesn't work and whether or not it's already been converted to R134a. At the very least you'll be looking at a new drier (about $35-$40) and three pounds of refrigerant. Worst case scenario would be a new condenser (they crack at the forward mounts - $220) and/or a new compressor. I had my a/c taken care of this summer. The estimate to repair and refill with R-12 was $1,200. and I went ahead and did it myself and did the R-134a conversion for $400.
I know the A/C can be expensive to fix in these cars.
The diesel fumes are definitely a concern as they are very strong. I forgot to bring it up to the mechanic and he didn't mention it to me.
Yes, most of the rust is just surface I believe so not too bad. I did forget to mention the chrome trim on the front bumper is rusting away. I forgot to take a picture of it but I guess that mean a new bumper is the only fix there?
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