Hi all,

This forum is realy a great source for experience and keen users with experience.

Baught my first MB back in 1995, a ´87 190E 2.6 manual second hand, and havnt had a single mechanical faliure ( except for the charging-relay ).
Have been walking around the hot plate for almost a year now, to which MB should I upgrade/change. ( once MB always MB so Audi, BMW etc. is realy not an option I would feel good about ).

I have been considering the W220 S500 for a long time, but have now finaly descided that this is not an option cause the vast amount of repair issues and cost. Living outside Barcelona, Spain with 30km to the nearest MB service, and knowing the efficiency of spanish service shops, Im looking into a nightmare if I get a "monday" car.

Looking at a W140 1992-1997 seems like a possible choice ? But are they as rock solid build as the former MB ? Is it full of electronic boards and cables like the new models ? Does it use CAN network ?



What do you think ?


I enclose some pictures of my beauty, should be all MB original:

[IMG]local://upfiles/11017/9C815CE7B176437282CF6DD45F4C7546.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/11017/408940B503A04278BE59CA19EC70112A.jpg[/IMG]

 

The 1992 S-class basically ended the backyard repair days for the S-class. That means that s when they started to place all types of electronics in it, but, so far it's been pretty mum on the problems. Of course some people have electical glitches just like any other car. It is said that by 1995 (or 1994 in other parts of the world) the electical glitces for that body has been mostlly worked out. So I say that a 1995-1999 W140 is a safe bet. Shouldn't be long now for a second opinion.

 

i find the 140 body a bit heavy compared to 220.

whenever i accelerate on 140, you cannot immediately get the pick-up speed as you feel on 126 560SEL or W220.
140 is spacious inside and comfortable. but the fuel consumption isn't really nice.

220 is my choice if i have to choose between the two. even the S320 is good enough to offer you the instant power acceleration that you need. most body components are plastics and aluminum, and therefore much much lighter!

on cost and repair, their parts prices are almost similar. not much problem with it and more easy to maintain.

yes, 140 uses CAN also but only on engine side. interior still uses the wiring harness method and lots of it.

 

Lot and lots!!

 

Thanks for the informative information. Still looking around for which upgrade to make.

One stupid question - what is the difference between the W140 S500 and the 500 SE ?? Is it the same car with many names, or as I red somwhere the 500 SE is the forgotten S- class ??

Any links to model line up ?

And sure - the W220 body is much more appealing and light than the W140, but looking into reliability and service problems with the W220, this model is not an option I dare go for.

 

I would not buy a w220 unless i planned not to own it long. If I was u i would go with a 1996-1999 W140 then pick the engine u want based on ur personal need for speed or fuel economy. i am assuming u dont want a W126 but i would recommend a 1986-91 if you ld what be looking at those.

 

500SE is 126 body but they also use the 500SE model designation for 140 body which is the same as S500.

 

I don't remember there being many 500SE W140s in the states, but in Europe you can find them a little easier than the 500SEL due to size. In fact now and days, it's gettign harder and harder to find the big Benzes due to gas prices and maybe other factors that I haven't known yet since I haven't been here too long.

 

Hmmm ... have been investigating more, my conclusion so far is that in order to upgrade to a newer MB model, I will get a first-generation computer equipped car.

Only options for a reliable car today is to have a non-computerized car - which means for MB the W201, W124, W126 and perhaps the W140 models:

However some say the W140 is also computerized, if so really not an option

W201 is what I got
W124 is almost what I got
W126 is too big, but the CE is nice
W140 is too bulky, but the CE is OK

So Ill stick with the 190E 2.6 till further, to swap horizontally is not really worth while.

So - have been looking a little around, at forums.clubtouareg.com I red about the WW Touareg, which seems to have the same first-generation-electronics problem, like airmatic, and the entire electrical system. At another US lemon car side, the new E-class seems still to have problems with the electrical system - worst stories from people experiencing that the brakes suddenly doesn't work, or the break assistance suddenly decides by its own will to block the breaks. The new E class isnt even able to charge the battery if under a sudden voltage.

I suppose they need a couple of decades to figure out how to construct a reliable computerized and controlled car, a dream coming from the top management, but we all know ( well at least design engineers of industrial electronics ) that in real life this is not possible for a consumer car.

This is not a Boing 747 which get service check each week by professionals, and which have several backup systems along with the shift to manual operation, but a consumer car driving around for years without service except the usual oil change etc. , and serviced by mechanics educated in mechanics car repair and not electronic engineers educated in error finding in electronics systems.

Bottom line is, this is simply not possible -it will never work !

With the W220, which is my favorite next car if not for the electronic system, I would consider to isolate the main computer from the rest of the car, and replace all electronics possible with direct cabling and controls using parts from the W124 class:

1) Rip out all electronic boards in doors, seats, sun-roof etc, and replace with direct cabling and controls using standard parts from W124 E-class.

2) Redesign the dash board PCB board with the wrong dimensioned and designed drivers and missing driver-fuses/temperature monitoring. Alternatively limited to attach an extra small driver board replacing the 3 driver transistors which tends to melt. All connections to main computer should be disabled and disconnected when possible.

3) Rip out the MB specific NAVI system and replace with a standard consumer system.

4) Disable and disconnect breaking assistance system if installed

5) Rewire sensors to dash board lamps, disconnecting to main computer. I don't need a computer to tell me what's wrong, and take action by its self, good old lamps works fine. Replace all sensors possible with reliable sensors from the W124 E-class.

6) Install a back-up relay for the airmatic compressor

7) Install a temperature censor on the airmatic compressor - wired directly to a dash board lamp.

8) Disable and disconnect all informative sencores not neccesary from the main computer



Thats based on my research on this forum, benzworld and other sites.

 

I don't think the W220 is even designed to run without all them electronics, but you never know. You might be on to something.

when you find the right Benz for yourself, you'll be happy with it. And also, you can always get the short wheel base versions of the W126 and or W140. Or you can look into the W126/ W140 coupes. They are a little smaller but you still get the S-Class feel, if the sedans feel too big for you.