Diesel Discussions Only diesel topics should be posted here.

Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 11-27-2006, 07:42 PM
gregp1962's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Default Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?

I realize that electronic fuel injection made a HUGE difference in diesel engine performance. But, I don't understand why older diesels are soooo slow. Is there any retorfitting that can be done to an older diesel to make it burn cleaner and have more power?
 
  #2  
Old 11-28-2006, 07:38 PM
Charles Munn's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 243
Default RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?

ORIGINAL: gregp1962

I realize that electronic fuel injection made a HUGE difference in diesel engine performance. But, I don't understand why older diesels are soooo slow. Is there any retorfitting that can be done to an older diesel to make it burn cleaner and have more power?
It seems many Mercedes 123 owners with 617 engines regularly do the Lubro Molly diesel purge, as well as the occasional Italian overhaul.

They also insure that the inner workings of the banjo nut on the intake manifold and the clear plastic tube going up to the switchover valve is kept clean and soot free. ( you can find a pictorial of that on dieselgiant.com )

It seems many pull both plastic tubes off of the switchover valve and connect them together, thereby by-passing the switchover. The plastic tube then essentially runs directly from the banjo nut to the ALDA. Man, you'll see a world of difference!

Some even go further by adjusting the ALDA nut until, when reving the engine, they see a touch of black smoke. Then they back off until there's hardly any black smoke. Hence the old adage, "Man, he's smokin'!"
Finally, they put a bb pellet or small bearing into the plastic tube just as it enters the EGR......

I strongly suspect you'll be extremely pleased at the performance, especially if you drive a 300D T. But if one is driving in steep mountainous country pulling a heavy load, it seems without a switchover valve, there's a risk of ruining your engine. Also, I've read that it's very easy to break off the ALDA nut....
 
  #3  
Old 12-19-2006, 02:52 AM
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2
Default RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?

I have a 1984 Turbo Diesel 300D and it was really slow off the mark until the turbo kicked in at 2K revs. I installed propane injection that switches on when the throttle is almost wide open and when I need some get up and go - it GETS up and goes. Really. Cost was $150. Works a treat. A regular 5 gal BBQ propane bottle lasts me about a month - cost $11+ extra a month for some decent pep.For a while I had the switch that opened the propane up on a manual switch and it was surprisingly useful in any gear range to give a boost to performance. If you are interested I can post some photos but its dark right now and I am not about to go out and take photos for this post :-)
 
  #4  
Old 12-19-2006, 06:55 AM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 63
Default RE: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?

i have found several homebrew systems diagramed online. they are very simple to set up and regulate providing that you have a dual stage regulator which eliminates any output changes regardless of the input pressure of the tank up until it is nearly empty. i am unsure of how much extra stress the trans in my 76 300d can take. she shifts well but with 460k its an expensive chance.

have you installed an pyrometer. this sensor reads your exhaust temperatures so you know if you are over heating the engine and turbo. for best results it should be installed before the turbo. this means that you must in all cases remove the turbo to clear all metal shavings. i have even seen a television program forgo this step and just try and get most of the shavings out with a magnet. turbos must be awfully cheap for them! You can install the sensor after the turbo and keep everything intact but your readings will not be as accurate.
 
  #5  
Old 01-01-2007, 02:03 PM
Drrty240D's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 174
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

You CAN install an electric turbocharger. There is a company called LINK REMOVED.com that makes a device that installs in your fresh air feedline. Claims to boost performance by up to 30HP. I don't have any personalexperience with this unit, but it could be a fun project --especially for only $100. Based on the science claimed by the manufacturer you would have to see at least some improvement in performance.
 

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 05-19-2009 at 05:02 AM.
  #6  
Old 01-02-2007, 11:21 PM
Drrty240D's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 174
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

I see what you mean about thosebilge blowers - total cheap crap. What about the 1.7PSI / 13.8V / 120A / 1666W Super eRam unit? Seems to be some science there.... LINKREMOVED.com

For what it's worth, I checked further and found that the guy who invented the device, Mark Kibort,was actually issued a patent for his design, US Patent # 6,328,024 "Axial Supercharger."
 

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 05-19-2009 at 05:02 AM.
  #7  
Old 01-03-2007, 11:53 AM
Drrty240D's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 174
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

Mypoint. On a non-turbo 616 2.4L 123 chassis this solution could be a real winner, especially for someone not wanting to install the traditional plumbing for a legacy turbo.
 
  #8  
Old 01-04-2007, 06:42 AM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 63
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

electric turbo chargers are not totally impractical. back when the idea of a 48 volt system was thougth to be viable Delphi had plans for an electric turbo charger for very small displacement motors.

but the products listed above are about as useful as taking those dollars and supplying them directly upstream of your intake.

i did see a video on "youtube" or a clone with a late model Chevrolet s-10 on the dyno with NA pulls and then pulls where a leaf blower was placed so that its outlet was joined to the intake. if i remember correctly he netted about a 10 hp increase.

a little math here 3 liter engine at redline of 4350 rpm consumes a total of 13050 liters or 461 cubic feet of air per min at 0(zero) psig. any device you add must be capable of producing atleast this amount of air output for any benefit to be found.


 
  #9  
Old 01-04-2007, 02:43 PM
Drrty240D's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 174
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

If I'm reading the eRam information correctly the turbo unit only spins up at full throttle when the engine can take full advantage of the increased airflow.Running the fan constantly would be pointless.
 
  #10  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
Default RE: Gutless Performance... -> TURBOCHARGE!

What if you used one of these electric turbo's in conjucntion with a propane injection system would this not increase your horsepower a significant amount ? Have both set up to start when throttle is over half open.
 


Quick Reply: Why are the older diesels slow and gutless? Can anything be done about it?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.