this is a fabulous thread. and I thank each of you who contributed. My knowledge base concerning diesels and WVO conversion started at 0 and is now up to at least 3 (on a 10 scale). I am certain that the more I read and reread the more I will understand. The chassis and engine displacement discussion was hugely enlightening.

I'm looking for a 300 to do my first conversion. My wife runs a sustainable building materials supply and design service, and I think it would be fabulous for her to drive a VO car.

I know many tips are scattered throughout this site, and I plan to keep reading. But if you have positive or negative experiences to pass along, I'd love to know.

Also, I'll keep watching for someone selling a 300 -- converted or not. But if you have one and want to give me a heads-up, please do.

thanks, tomo
(currently driving a 95 town car with 215K but ready to convert)

 

Wow, is that a fact for all states in the US? Do they not have consessions etc, record keeping etc. Is bona fide Bio Diesel allowed or must you get registered or something like that.

 

I have done a bit of research on this also. So far I am not aware of the EPA enforcing the above letter.

I work in the Environmental area. If you EVER ask the DEP or the EPA ANYTHING that is questionable, they will ALWAYS say NO! (unless it comes down to a legal challenge).

Here's the issue for the EPA. WVO is generally free. How does a person pay for a tax on something that is free.
If you could burn dirt from your own property, can the government charge you tax on it?

Now this is different than if you SELL WVO. In that case you are making an income off of it and then they you would be more likely required to pay the tax on it to others. (Although I haven't found any cases on that either YET).

In terms of whether it makes the EPA emmissions, well, the EPA would have to determine that your car is not making the standards.

My opionion on this is IF the EPA chooses to actually prosecute someone who uses a recycled, free substance, that would normally go to the dump (and in the decaying process emit the same emmissions as the car it is being burned in. Well, I think there would be political backlash.

I do think the Environmentalist shouldpush for strong languauge to encourage this in the future. (I know there is a lot of movement to get bio's in diesel).

EPA has enough of a hard time with going after those who really pollute.

My oppinion on this is, if anyone does get prosecuted for this, I am willing to make a nice contribution to fight the EPA.

With all that said, what I recommend is that you have a neighbor buy the conversion kit for you. You pay cash. Convert the car. In the unlikely event you are "caught", I will be happy to help support you. (if your willing to fight for a worthy cause).

Note: I am an engineer. The WVO when thrown in the garbage and goes to the dump emits the same emmissions.(eventually into CO2). By the way, Where did this Carbon come from. Well, the plants get it from the air. In short, it is the best form of recycling. Not even solar panels have the same environmental positive impact. (solar panels are extremely toxic).

Ohh, one last thing. Have you ever heard of a cop checking fuel tanks, send out samples to determine if it is WVO? (though I have heard of them verifying it is not red diesel).

Scott
Hey, some things are worth fighting for.

 

What I find really interesting, and as a complete out sider, from another continent, why on earth do the EPA have to inform you about vehicle warranties, and actually mentioning it and then giving you a website to try and discourage you from using it, IMHO, I think there is some kind of colusion between manufacturers and lawmakers... I suggest you have a look at WWW.FRYBRID.COMand make your own decision...

 

I have used wvo and biodiesel in several vehicles. If you don't flaunt the fact you are using it, you may go unnoticed. As foced induction says, most cops haven't a clue on what wvo is or it's legality. I work in the HVAC field among many laws concerning what is released in the air. EPA is under funded, over extended, and understaffed to enforce every law it publishes. In fact, there are many out there still blowing refrigerant straight in the atmosphere, getting caught, and the epa saying "we don't have the resources to pursue this".

I have heard of a hand full of cases, mainly in the carolinas where people have been fined for running unauthorized fuels. Biodiesel board lawyers were quick to jump on board these suits offering free legal assistance.

Here's the point. Fuel prices are crazy now. You can run WVO in older benz cars fairly easy. Is it illegal, sure. Will you get caught, probably not. Can you get caught, yes. You take the risk running it. Does it run as good as diesel, no. Will it run, yes. is it cost effective versus diesel, yes. is it easy to keep up with, no. You have to change filters frequently, pump and clean the oil, keep the oil up to temperature, make sure you don't shut it down with it in the pump, monitor the system constantly. It is a hastle, but has saved me thousands.

If you piece the system together, buying parts off ebay or other sites, you can make a reliable system for under 300. is it good for these cars, no it's not. if it is not done right, it will clog the system, cause buildups, and damage the engine. But if you buy a 25 yr old car with 250k miles on it for 800, get 50k miles on wvo, save yourself 5000 in fuel costs, how much have you really lost when she craps out??? rebuild it and get another 50k.

Listen to the opinions, both positive and negative and make your own judgement decision

Hope this helps

 

Wow,

Thanks! Those were great posts and hit the nail on the head. Note: Particularly about the EPA. I do know that under the law, if you spill 2 ozs (that is 1/6 of a 12 oz soda can), onto the ground, you are also under the law required to notify the EPA (actually administered through the DEP). Point is, if you send them the letter, yes, you'll get a negative response and yes, the letter was more focussed on car warranties.

In terms of most WVO, I can tell you personally, that EVERY place I have stopped at to date has been throwing it out in normal garbage, That even includes a "Friendly' chain restaurant. 100's of gallons each month. I have stopped at Blimpee's, and local chinese shops.

Second, I have found several websites that have shown that diesels actually run "cleaner" (not faster) on WVO. Keep in mind that DIESEL originally DESIGNED the this engine to burn on corn oil. That was the intent. It obviously runs better on normal "diesel" FO (also called #2 FO) because it has slightly higher BTU content but that's it.

To also clarify, I think there is a reason why you see differences in opinions about burning WVO in Mercedes diesels. Because they will more quickly foul up fuel filters, and requires more maintenance that it will hurt the overal number of pre 1985 mercedes on the market. It also raises the values of the older model cars.
I personally think it is good because it does raise the value of these cars, and people are more willing now to save a car (worth $1,000) that normally would go to the dump.

I personally bought a 1979 Mercedes car for $500. because engine cyclinder was shot. I am in the process of putting a different engine in and converting it. I can assure you the car would have been at the junk yard by now (even though the body was in bad shape). Therefore, In my humble opinion, I think it is overall good for both Mercedes diesels, the environment and making a tiny spec of a difference in getting off foreign oil.

 

WVO car is not for everyone. It a a hassle to collect, filter and pump into the car. Setting up a filter station and more maintainence on fuel filters etc. There is no free lunch in this world. I have converted a 83 300D and had done 6000 miles on it for free, or almost free, It has been fun, especally for my daughter who is very 'green'.

I live in CA and hence a 1 tank conversion is OK. I just put a electric heater before the priimary filter, it costs about $150 in eBay and takes 30 minutes to install. I do not even run the coolant through it as a second heat source. The other thing you can do is put in a mix of diesel and WVO. This will increase your mpg withoutthe need to do a conversion. In summer, you can do as high as 80% WVO. In winter, may be 20% depends on the temperature ofwhere you live. There is a lot of info on the web.

I would not worry about the ligality of using WVO. I think in CA is OK as long as use it for your personal use and not to exceed n (?? ) gallons a year. In most European countries, it is legal. US should follow suit.

Good luck.

 

Don't know about the decription about the installation, how many miles do you reckon the car will get before the engine fails. I am on a 1 tank system and have done over 30 000 miles, just curious how long before the big bang... have not noticed any smoke or strange engine noises... Orville and Wilbur knew they were going to crash a few planes, but they kept at it...With the ammount of money I have saved, I have recouped the cost of the car, repairs that I did to it, the conversion, making a nice filter station at home and every single cent I have spent on the whole thing. If it does conk out, will just pull the motor, flip it up side down, put new rings and bearings on, new head gasket, grind the valves and maybe a bit or two other things, or just look in the classifieds for another motor, and pop it in. I don't do motor shows with it, it just takes me where I want to go at the cheapest possible rate, and a bit slower than a Ferrari, but then when you sit in gridlock, the Ferrari goes just as fast....

My theory is that the first couple of revolutions with the motor firing, the injector is already pretty warm, so any oil in it will also be pretty warm. The heater that I use, gets warm within a minute of the car starting.

There are going to be people running 1 tank, just wonder what the negative effects are. My opinion is that if your glow plugs are good, and you change the oil every 5000 Km, you won't have a problem...
If it is injectors that are going to "break" after many thousands or miles, or the injector pump.

As for the collecting, filtering and putting in the car, that is not a hassle at all, happens very quickly, my oil stands fora few weeks in the sun, when I then filter it, it almost looks new. I only collect from places that only fry fries, and the oil is super clean to start with. Have never had a problem with the filter blocking(did in the beginning, 1st few hundred miles) but now the only time I open the bonnet is to show people the "conversion" that I have done, and to change the Oil every 5000 Km. Oh, and had to replace the glow plugs, have had the car 18 months and started to start more difficultly, so changed the GPs.

 

In other countries there are specific task forces in place to inspect and stop WVO users. There have been no documented cases of legal trouble in the US to date that I know of. Personally I find it interesting that the EPA will not approve WVO or SVO, just another government agency looking for some tax income I suppose. Makes me feel good that I can still ethically do one thing that is "bad."

 

If destroying a car, polluting the environment and not shouldering your share of the tax burden is "ethical", go for it, sunshine!