Recently my dad gave me an 87 300D turbo. Problem is that he ran it out of fuel a few weeks back while letting it idle in his driveway. The car was purchased from one of his customers (it has been sitting in his shop for about 3 years now and he just has no interest in it.

I have replaced both primary and secondary filters and have been trying to bleed air at the injectors. The car will fire briefly and then just stops. The car ran fine before this out of fuel event. I am not sure what I am fighting but I assume it is air in the lines/pump. I have read enough to know there isn't a primer pump on this particular engine (603 series engine) This is the first diesel I have ever worked on so I am pretty much flying blind. Can anyone give me any advice as to how I should be doing this?

Many thanks for any advice!
Bryan

 

Fill the fuel filter up with diesel, crack the fuel line that supplies the injector pump, then spin the engine 'till fuel comes out the line. After that, crack each injector line 'till fuel squirts out. During this process the engine will usually start. If all of this doesn't work the problem probably isn't fuel related. Check the glow plugs, make sure they are working. I don't remember the resistance they should be, but I think it is .2 ohms when cold (after is has been sitting overnight). There is a black box on the driver's side fender that has a 6 prong plug, pull that plug out those wires lead to each glow plug, check resistance there to ground on each prong of the plug. Good luck

 

If after you do what oldrebuiltdodge said does not work and you are not getting Fuel coming out from under the Fuel Injection Line Nuts at the Injector it is possible the Fuel Tank Screen is Plugged.

The Fuel Supply system has the Fuel Tank Screen, the Primary Filter (should be in the Fuel Line before you get to the Fuel Supply Pump normally made of Plastic) the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump, the Secondary (spin-on) Fuel Filter; from that point the Fuel goes through the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and out of the Fuel Pressure Relief/Over Flow Valve.
The Fuel Pressure Relief/Over Flow Valve controls the Fuel Supply pressure in the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and in the case of your Year and Model has an Air Bleed inside (why you have no Hand Primer).

So if there is no Fuel getting to the Fuel Injection Pump it could be the Tank Screen, one or both of the Filters, the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump not working properly or the Fuel Pressure Relief/Valve not holding Pressure or bleeding the Air out properly.

When a Car sits for a long time the gunk in the Tank has time to go to the Bottom of the Tank. When you run out of Fuel you are sucking from the very Bottom of the Tank and that gunk can get more easily pulled into the Tank Screen and eventually the Filters. The same can happen on a Gasoline Engine.

Also when a Diesel sits a long time it is possible for stuff to grow inside of the Fuel Tank adding to the normal gunk that could be in the Tank.

 

If after you do what oldrebuiltdodge said does not work and you are not getting Fuel coming out from under the Fuel Injection Line Nuts at the Injector it is possible the Fuel Tank Screen is Plugged.

The Fuel Supply system has the Fuel Tank Screen, the Primary Filter (should be in the Fuel Line before you get to the Fuel Supply Pump normally made of Plastic) the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump, the Secondary (spin-on) Fuel Filter; from that point the Fuel goes through the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and out of the Fuel Pressure Relief/Over Flow Valve.
The Fuel Pressure Relief/Over Flow Valve controls the Fuel Supply pressure in the Fuel Injection Pump Housing and in the case of your Year and Model has an Air Bleed inside (why you have no Hand Primer).

So if there is no Fuel getting to the Fuel Injection Pump it could be the Tank Screen, one or both of the Filters, the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump not working properly or the Fuel Pressure Relief/Valve not holding Pressure or bleeding the Air out properly.

When a Car sits for a long time the gunk in the Tank has time to go to the Bottom of the Tank. When you run out of Fuel you are sucking from the very Bottom of the Tank and that gunk can get more easily pulled into the Tank Screen and eventually the Filters. The same can happen on a Gasoline Engine.

Also when a Diesel sits a long time it is possible for stuff to grow inside of the Fuel Tank adding to the normal gunk that could be in the Tank.

 

I broke the return line and bled to each injector as oldrebuiltdodge suggested. I am getting fuel at each location (not a large amount though) and the glow plugs are good. So trying something I had read here or elsewhere I broke the fuel line after the lift pump placed it in a clear bottle and cranked for 30 seconds. I did get fuel, only around 2 or a little more oz though. Which is short of what I had understood to expect.

I agree that this may not mean the lift pump is bad, I suspect that as you said the screen in the tank may be partially plugged from pulling the gunk off the bottom of the tank. Would it be a bad idea to pull the fuel cap off the tank and blow a little compressed air back towards the tank? Or would it be a better idea to confirm by getting a small jar of fuel and putting the inlet to the lift pump in that?

Since the car hasn't been moved it was ran out of fuel while not being driven. That makes me wonder how long the car set and idled with the lift pump having no fuel (lubrication) before the injector pump ran out. Could it be possible that seals in the pump were destroyed in that time?

I am almost ready to purchase both the lift pump and the tank screen and change the lift pump first (just because it appears easiest to do). Where is the fuel pressure relief valve you spoke of? How would I check that?

Many thanks for the thoughts so far!

Bryan

 

You can buy a New Fuel Tank Screen if you want to but 95% of the time they can be cleaned; but you will need a new O-ring for the Tank Screen.
There is a rebuild kit available for the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump. However, the outlet Valve is sort of built into the Outlet fitting and is crimped in palace. Enough of the crimp can be filed off that you can pry out the Disc Valve and replace it. Silicon Sealant or JB Weld Epoxy can be used to seal the new one in. Make sure to not which directions the Valves point in. The Kit used to be less than $50.
I am not familiar with this forum so I don't know it has instructions on the rebuilding of the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump

There is a Gasket on the Lift Pump and there are O-rings and Copper Crush Washers up at the top where each of the Delivery Valve Holders come out of the Fuel Injection Pump and a O-ring at the front of the Fuel Injection Pump.
If the O-rings at the Delivery Valve Holders on the top of the Pump were leaking you would see the leak.

And, even when they do leak a little the Engine often will start.
No other seals that would have an effect on the Engine Starting.

You should not shoot compressed Air into anything that is not well Vented. There is a Fuel Tank Vent but that may or may not be able to vent off enough Air.

I don't know if this can be done on your year and Model. On the Older Models You can swap the positions of the Hoses that go to the Fuel Supply Pump and the Fuel Return back to the Fuel Tank. That has the return Fuel pushing back through the Fuel Tank Screen and the Fuel going to the Engine being drawn from a Higher level above the bottom of the Fuel Tank.
You need to have about 1/2 Tank of Fuel to do that.

Since I have never seen how the Fuel Supply setup is in Your Particular Year and Model I think you may need to Jury Rig some extra Fuel Hose to do what I suggested.
If you can manage to do that and the Engine Starts it is sign your Fuel Tank Screen is plugged.

Also if the Fuel Tank setup is similar to the older Model you will have a Rubber Hose coming from the Fuel Tank Screen (with the older models you need a 46mm or 1-13/16 inch Socket to remove the Fuel Tank Screen) you clamp off the Hose with a Vicegrips and unclamp the Engine side of the Hose and disconnect it.

What is in the Fuel lines will leak out so you need something to catch it in. You will need a container big enough so that when you release the Vice Grips you can catch a large amount of Fuel; clamp the Hose off and transfer that Fuel to another container.
Repeat the previous until the Tank is empty and you can remove the Fuel Tank Screen.
If what ever Pan or Bucket You use is clean you can inspect the Fuel for Crud.

If You do the above remember that there is going to be a lot of Air in the Fuel Supply Lines that has to be moved before it reaches the Fuel Injection Pump. That will take a lot of Cranking.

I My own case I have Several Electric Fuel Pumps. One I bought an the other I acquired on the Job where doing a rebuild on small Gasoline Generators they used to through out the Electric Fuel Pumps good or not.
I use one of those to pull the Fuel forward. Another help is to raise the rear end of the Car and let Gravity help out.

 

Well, I replaced the tank screen and the lift pump. The strainer was dirty but not completely plugged. How much cranking are we talking before I should be seeing a start? I did crack the return line and wait for fuel there before trying to start. Also I am only getting my primary filter about half full, it wasn't that way earlier. I didn't crank for long periods of time because I don't want to overheat the starter but I never filled the primary filter either? Am I being too gentle with the starter and should I try cranking for 20+ seconds at a time? It fires and runs for about a second and then dies.

A second question, as Oldrebuiltdodge stated above, I am beginning to wonder if this problem isn't fuel related and the car died for some other reason than running out of fuel. Is there something on this motor that would cause it to stall after firing? Dad said before he thought he ran it out of fuel it started idling rough and when he patted the gas it tried to die. Any ideas?

 

Are you getting fuel at the injectors? The way you described it's death, it sounds like it did run out of fuel. If it isn't starting now and it has fuel at the injectors, check the glow plugs. If the pre-combustion chambers aren't warm they don't like to start. Avoid using starting fluids if at all possible, because of fire danger, and the damage it does to the engine. If you feel you must use starting fluid a little gasoline in the intake AFTER the glow plugs are disabled is much better for your engine than any ether. A couple of other questions. Does the injector pump put out enough pressure to fire the injectors? Does the engine have enough compression to fire the fuel? To answer those questions just by looking, crack the fuel line at the injector and note how hard it squirts while cranking the engine. how does the engine sound while cranking it on the starter? If it sounds like it is spinning freely, or speeds up without "hitting" (trying to start) you probably have low compression. Is your battery strong enough to spin the engine fast enough to start it? Is your starter dragging? All of this can and does affect how it starts. To save your starter, 30 seconds on and let it cool for 1 minute, keep the battery fully charged.

 

When I pulled the tank strainer out the bottom half of it was pretty well plugged so if the tank didn't run completely dry it probably starved for fuel due to the bottom half of the filter not allowing fuel flow. I now have a new tank strainer, new prefilter, new primary filter and a new lift pump in the system.

When I crank it does not spin free, I really don't think that compression is my issue. I still think the air is not completely out of the system, I do get fuel to my injectors when I crack the lines. I didn't have someone to help me this evening so I can't say for sure that the fuel squirts when I crack the line but I see bubbles at the spot around the fitting after cranking. My Dad installed new glow plugs while he had the car in his shop because he said they acted weak. I can tell you he did not ream the passages before installing them though. Too late on the starting fluid though, I tried a few squirts at the air filter before cranking just to see if I could get it going. It fires and then dies, I won't keep putting the fluid in there while cranking because I have heard it messes things up badly. I also held the prefilter upside down to get the air out of it this evening and it only has a small bubble now. I am tempted to bypass the heating loop that is before the lift pump and after the prefilter just to see if that is the issue, since I live in a cold weather area I am sure that couldn't be a permanent cure.

I keep a pretty large charger on the battery while I am cranking so I am not cranking slow at all and I am doing my best to be easy on the starter. I may be a bit timid though and I don't crank for longer than 10 seconds. I keep feeling the starter to make sure it isn't getting hot. It appears to me that the air is finally out of the line from the tank to the prefilter since I am no longer getting air there but I have my doubts between there and the injection pump.

Thank you so much for your help/advice!

 

Those newer OM60X systems can be tough to get the air out of.

When we replace all the plastic lines, even with filling the filter
and bleeding it takes a lot of cranking.

Not like a OM617.